Newsmakers with Leigh Sales

The former 7.30 anchor on the power of curiosity


G’day, Kate Watson here.

My mum reminded me the other day that as a little kid I proudly announced I wanted to be Mary Frank when I grew up. 

Who is Mary Frank? Fair question. Mary Frank was the anchor of WIN News Illawarra - my local TV news. 

Now, there’s a strong chance that as a young kid, I just liked the idea of being on TV. But as I get older, I still feel like those who get to anchor news and current affairs programs have the dream job. People like Tracey Grimshaw, Tara Brown, Andrew Denton, Waleed Aly, Kellie Underwood and of course, Leigh Sales. 

So to have Leigh say yes to Newsmakers - what an opportunity.  

Although my thrill quickly turned to mild panic. 

How do I keep myself calm and make sure it’s a great conversation for everyone listening? Turns out I needn’t have worried because the minute she sat down she made me feel very comfortable - she’s such a professional whilst still being so warm. 

As for what we talked about, we covered a lot. From her 12 years anchoring ABC TV’s 7.30 to her writing on journalism, her research into grief and fear and how we cope, to her thoughts on news fatigue. Her new show The Assembly currently airing on ABC and why she signed up, her recent interview with Nick Cave for Australian Story. We talk about her side hustle podcast Chat 10 Looks 3 which has turned into so much more with a community of tens of thousands that listen and show up for live shows. She gives some tips on how she approaches interviews and who she’d still love to talk to and hasn’t had the chance yet. (Her answer might surprise you). 

Whether you’re simply an interested news consumer, perhaps a journalism student or aspiring reporter. Maybe you’re someone who has read her books. Perhaps you’re someone dealing with grief. Or maybe you’re Chatter who just loves Leigh. Whatever way you’re coming at this, there’ll be something in it for you. 

You can listen to the full podcast interview, click on the image below to watch the chat, or scroll down for an edited transcript. 

Your friend in news

Kate Watson

Leigh Sales on…

The power of curiosity…

Kate Watson: I’m going to reference your 2009 essay ‘On Doubt’. You talked about being an inquisitive kid, driving your dad crazy with all your questions. But you also talk, which I found fascinating because I've thought about this myself - when you are a deeply curious person, you can often not find passion in much because you can see both sides. Have you changed at all?

Leigh Sales: I think not. I think my personality is a bit like that. And then I chose a job that then kind of, you know, exacerbated those traits. So I'm trained to be able to see things from other perspectives. I'm somewhat suspicious of people who are all in about something, like an idea or something open to interpretation, like politics.

I remember years and years ago, there was the Greens leader in New South Wales, a man named Ian Cohen. I remember Bob Carr was the Premier, and he announced some environmental decisions that Ian thought were absolutely catastrophic. And I remember when Ian did the press conference about it, he was struggling to hold back tears about it. And I remember just thinking, wow, that's incredible that he cares so much about that. I do find it impressive.

But yeah, I also kind of hate that sort of blind tribalism where people say - well, my side says this, so therefore, I have to back that in. To me, that's an anathema to good journalism.

KW: Reading everything you've written did make me wonder… I think you might be deeply passionate about journalism…

LS: Yeah, probably. I am actually. And things like - I really love music and am very passionate about music. So I think there are things that I do care a lot about. But I don't know if I would say, for example, that I define myself by being a journalist. Because I think if I did, then I wouldn't have stepped off at 7.30. So I do care about it and believe in it, but I'd like to think that I'm not just all that.

The most overlooked story…

LS: I think Australia's response to the COVID pandemic because that was so life-changing for so many people, the policy responses that we adopted. And pretty much by the time we got to the end of the pandemic, everyone was tired of hearing about it. And so I'm not persuaded that we've actually had a proper examination of the long-term costs of the policies that we adopted and why we chose that path. I think that that should be looked at because we don't know when another pandemic could come down the track.  

And every time I see a news story talking about mental health issues or children's education issues, or I think back to people that I interviewed on the program during that period, like people whose parents were in aged care and how we handled aged care, I feel like we have not done enough to get to the bottom of that, the way media covered it, the way politicians handled it, the reliance on epidemiologists and chief health officers.

I just think the whole response across the whole area needs a really, really close look. Now, do I want to do that? No, because I'm as sick of it as everyone else.

Why she agreed to do The Assembly…

KW: Your new show is about a group of 15 autistic journalism students interviewing famous Aussies. Tell us why you've signed up to do this. Why did you say yes?

LS: When I came back to the ABC after I left 7.30, Australian Story was my on-air job, but I specifically wanted something that left me plenty of time to be working behind the scenes on all sorts of different things and to not be in a forward-facing job. And one of the things was working with other reporters. So when this project came up, the ABC came to me and said, this is a French concept. They've made it over there. Have a look at this episode where this group in France interviews the president, Emmanuel Macron. Would you be interested in being involved?

So I watched it, and the first thing that appealed to me was the idea of working with a group of people and passing on knowledge. And then the other thing was watching them interview Macron - it was so fascinating because the nature of the questions being so direct, and also just the sincerity of the people asking, and there's no kind of agenda makes it really, really difficult for the person being interviewed to spin or duck the questions at all. And the nature of that - you can be asked one minute ‘what’s your dog’s name?’ and the next your being asked something pretty intense about disability support. It really keeps the interviewee on their toes because questions are coming from all sorts of different directions.

I could see how, given that at 7.30, I'd become kind of used to the difficulty of getting to the real person all the time and busting, particularly with politicians busting through spin. I looked at this and just thought, that's fantastic. Like they really are able to get closer to the real person. And so I said, yes, let's do it.

Tell us what you think…

Last week, I mentioned that Leigh Sales would be our final Newsmakers episode… and then, we got a message from Dr Karl. I have to admit, science is a bit of a blind spot for me, but the broader Team Squiz couldn’t contain their excitement. So, we’re doing it - but now I’m curious…

How much do you know about Dr Karl?

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