Newsmakers with Chris Uhlmann

Kate Watson

Introducing this week’s Newsmaker: Chris Uhlmann

In recent years, Chris Uhlmann has become known as much for his commentary on the big issues as his journalism. He talks a lot about values - what it means to be Australian, what it means to live in the West, and his concerns about the threats to our way of life.

The prelude to the discussion about those big themes and the framework he uses to think about these things is to know that Chris studied theology when he started his adult life in a Catholic seminary and went onto a string of dead-end jobs. So I really wanted to understand how his experiences as a young man (who started as a copy kid at the Canberra Times at 29yo…) guided the journalist he became.

In recent times, Chris hasn’t been afraid of holding the powerful to account. He has questioned our politicians and officials over Australia’s pandemic response. He has voiced concerns about China's rise. He has even gone ‘viral’ internationally for his commentary on Donald Trump's leadership.

On top of that, he’s been to Ukraine to produce a documentary about the nation during the war called Forged in Fire to better understand ”the spirit of the Ukrainian people to rise up against Russia”.

As I expected, this chat demonstrates that he is a big thinker. He is interested in what makes people and our nation tick. He talks a lot about the threats to our way of life, and I ask him specifically why he decided to take part in that documentary. He explains why he thinks the Russia/Ukraine war is a fight for freedom more broadly, and how that affects us all. 

Chris is in a phase of his life and career where he is - in his words - “unashamedly working on things where I've got a fairly strong view about stuff.” Regardless of whether you agree with him, I found our chat to be thoughtful and informative. 

You can watch the video of our conversation below, listen to the full podcast interview, or scroll down for an edited transcript.

Chris Uhlmann on…

Coming out of retirement to make ‘Forged in Fire’

Chris Uhlmann: What we wanted to do was to make a documentary about the things that Australia was doing for Ukraine and how individuals were trying to make a difference. And I had a pretty strong view on the way that Putin had invaded Ukraine. If you read what he wrote before the war, he essentially doesn't believe that Ukraine exists and intends to take it. He wants to recreate Imperial Russia. And if you speak to people in the Balkan states, they are terrified that once he's finished with Ukraine, he's coming for them. So I went off to make that, and it was unashamedly pro-Ukrainian exercise.

Kate Watson: I was going to ask you, how does that sit with you as a reporter?

CU: The thing is, I got out of daily journalism, and the things that I intend to do from now on are unashamedly things where I've got a fairly strong view about stuff … I'm being perfectly frank about it. That was the exercise - I went looking for the spirit that made the Ukrainian people stand up and the people that wanted to support them in that.

KW: What was it like there?

CU: If you go to Kyiv you would find that it looked like a European city. You've got an app on your phone that tells you to go to an air raid shelter if there's a missile strike, but at that stage, there weren't that many of them… And you could see the scars in the city where the drones had hit and the missiles had hit. But… we got to within 6km of the front line to meet some of the people in the trenches. And there it looks like Mordor. You know, it is WWI with drones.

Fighting for Western values

CU: What stands out to me in that is the courage of people. So when the Russians were invading, you could basically turn up a police station, say I want a gun, they'd give you one, and you can go out and fight. So it's the people that organised first. And why? Because they don't want someone to tell them how to live.

KW: I think you’ve characterised Russia’s war on Ukraine not just as a war on the West but also as a war on values…

CU: It's precisely that. It’s the choice to be able to live your life within the bounds that any society lays down as freely as you possibly can, to make your own choices, to make your own mistakes, to have that freedom and not have someone else's will imposed on you into every aspect of your life… What is life without freedom, without the ability to choose what you want? It's nothing. That's the choice.

What he is hopeful about

CU: You know, it is every single day in a multitude of ways people go about their lives and try and do it in such a way that does no harm to others and a great many of them try and find ways where they can do good for others and on very small and very large ways every single day. And I think that's true of all people, you know. So, I am optimistic that that part of human nature will triumph.

Tell us what you think…

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